tydaze
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Posts: 72
Original Join Date: 2004
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Post by tydaze on Nov 9, 2016 10:49:37 GMT
I really, really hoped this wouldn't happen. Ignorance, hatred, fear, sexism, and racism... won. I don't know what to do. I don't know how I can feel okay now.
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Egann
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Posts: 124
Original Join Date: Sometime in 2008
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Post by Egann on Nov 9, 2016 12:24:48 GMT
Poor Hillary. You now owe a lot of favors and everyone knows you can't cash them. Couldn't happen to a nicer gal.
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Post by Jasi on Nov 9, 2016 13:43:12 GMT
Poor Hillary. You now owe a lot of favors and everyone knows you can't cash them. Couldn't happen to a nicer gal. This isn't a joke bro. This is many of our actual lives that are going to get screwed up in a very personal way. I have friends saying they are suddenly planning to get married soon, while they still can. That is so fucked. (Sorry are there language rules on the boards??)
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wisp
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Posts: 203
Original Join Date: February 18, 2004
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Post by wisp on Nov 9, 2016 17:28:00 GMT
Poor Hillary. You now owe a lot of favors and everyone knows you can't cash them. Couldn't happen to a nicer gal. This isn't a joke bro. This is many of our actual lives that are going to get screwed up in a very personal way. I have friends saying they are suddenly planning to get married soon, while they still can. That is so fucked. (Sorry are there language rules on the boards??) When have we ever had language rules? XD I am really not okay right now. Really not at all. It's bigger than just Trump. It's knowing that half of the country thought it was acceptable to vote for someone of his moral/ethical character. Even if it was a "lesser of two evils" vote that they didn't want to cast for him, they still preferred a provably bad businessman, pants-on-fire outrageous liar, possibly a rapist, definitely a racist... who seems to be buddy-buddy with Russia. Hillary wasn't who I wanted running things either, but at least she would've been similar to what we already had. I'm literally afraid that Trump is either going to burn this country down himself or bring down the wrath of enemies upon us. Or, he's going to get impeached and we're going to get PENCE, who may in some ways be even worse.
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Egann
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Posts: 124
Original Join Date: Sometime in 2008
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Post by Egann on Nov 9, 2016 22:51:16 GMT
And here I am wondering how long it'll take for some of you to realize you've been fed a line. I'm not going to say things will be rainbows and sunshine with Trump because they won't. Every president faces disasters and every president makes mistakes. But an appeal to fear like Trump will deport every illegal or stop you from getting married is right up there with the apocalyptic things some of the republican chain letter nonsense I've seen about Obama. I can't convince you to not be afraid, but many of these concerns are so impractical it's silly. Take the appeals to fear your own side tells you with big grains of salt; they're laced with, "we need you to vote!" as an ulterior motive.
The biggest danger Trump poses is that he will be an unnetworked incompetent like Obama and will wreck the GOP with corruption the same way Obama wrecked the DNC. I don't think that will happen because the GOP has always been under media scrutiny. Trump in particular has been under scrutiny. In a republic, scrutiny is good (more on that in the Obama retrospective thread I'll post soon.) Right now we have a media which has almost declared war on Trump and about 20 million people (the two of you included) who are itching to sign any petition to stop stupidity. This is actually a really good place to be, all things considered. The democracy is wide awake.
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JRPomazon
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Posts: 162
Original Join Date: 14 Jul 2003
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Post by JRPomazon on Nov 9, 2016 23:46:14 GMT
I've been going through today kind of in a haze, I'm not entirely sure what happened and what's going to happen. Aside from Facebook friends playing demagogue in their status updates all over my feed, I can't say I've been in the best of spirits. But that's neither here nor there.
The GOP is over, the DNC is exposed and in shambles as well. Nothing will quite be the same after all this on an election standpoint. But even still, this is a reality we have to deal with. I don't have much else to say, I suppose we need to see how things will play out from hereon out. Another good thing to know is that Obama is still the president of the US. I suppose these next few months will be the calm before the storm.
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Post by Jasi on Nov 10, 2016 0:01:19 GMT
Trump could very well take away gay marriage if he appoints justices who will overturn it--something he's stated he wants to do. It's that simple. Not impractical. It only seems silly to you because you're not affected.
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Post by SteveT on Nov 10, 2016 0:12:10 GMT
Here's the problem with your logic, Egann:
Obama never said he'd build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. Obama never revoked press passes or said he wanted to open up libel laws. Obama never threatened to jail anyone who ran against him. Obama never fostered a conspiracy theory that the sitting president was a Kenyan Muslim.
Trump has done these things. You can say we've been fed a line, but I can back any of those statements up with complete, in context Donald Trump quotes. Donald Trump is the one feeding us these lines. You've clearly chosen to make peace with those things because you've come to the conclusion that he won't or can't implement them or maybe you like the ideas, and congratulations on a good night's sleep. The fact that a presidential candidate even said them, and I don't care how sarcastic but not that sarcastic I'm supposed to infer he was, is a huge problem for me.
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Selena
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Odinsdottir
Posts: 318
Original Join Date: February 13, 2003
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Post by Selena on Nov 10, 2016 0:27:13 GMT
As an inept politician, Trump will appoint cabinet members from the far-right wings that got him elected. If only to appease Congress and the base. If the Supreme Court is on his side, he will logically go after things like Obamacare. Probably before he even has a replacement plan in place. Pence has hinted that they'll look at repealing the LGBT rights that were recently acquired. I will be safe because Washington implemented gay marriage on a state level first, but many others potentially face struggle.
Will he be able to push any of these plans through? Maybe not. Time constraints and all that. Some of them would be big fights -- potentially not worth the effort. But he'll also need to keep his supporters unified now that they're all at a fever pitch.
And then, more simply, there's the same fallout from Brexit. Which is: increased xenophobia, isolation, and nationalism. That may not seem like a big deal, but if it gets to the point where minorities (especially Muslims or Hispanics) are more frequently attacked, then it's a tangible problem. Hardliners already assume that Mexicans are "illegal" based solely on their appearance. Have seen it both online and in person. They assume illegal until proven otherwise. If that sentiment starts getting worse... yeah.
That was going to be there regardless of outcome, but with Trump in power it will be even worse.
Members on this forum are anxious based on their backgrounds or lifestyles. They are not unjustly concerned. Trump may not necessarily do all he's promised to, but his overly-aggressive and combative supporters are another story. With fewer limitations and restrictions in what they might do. I've already seen them screaming at people for playing the "victim card." "WHY DON'T YOU TRUST ME?? I'M JUST SCREAMING ANGRILY AT YOU. GOD, DON'T BE SO SENSITIVE YOU WHINY LIBTARD."
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wisp
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Post by wisp on Nov 10, 2016 3:11:46 GMT
The first half of today was really nothing but a haze of panic attacks for me. Trying to find silver linings in this whole thing is proving extremely difficult, largely because of the Supreme Court issue. I'm gravely worried about the GOP continuing to attack healthcare, birth control, abortion rights, same-sex marriage, transgender rights, general LGBT protections, privacy, etc., and I'm worried about what consequences we're going to see from electing someone who rails against our next-door neighbors as rapists and criminals, says he's going to build a wall and force them to pay for it, threatens to specifically target the families of terrorists (many of whom probably are only in the organization because they literally had no other choice), lies ALL THE FUCKING TIME, brags about assaulting women, encourages his fanbase to engage in violence, swindles and cheats people out of their money, constantly runs businesses into the ground by making bad decisions, estimates his net worth based on how he "feels" at the time, turned most debates into a three-ring circus where the talking points were who insulted whom rather than what anyone's actual platform was, and apparently admires both Hitler and Putin.
I think these are legitimate things to be concerned about.
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Delphi
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Posts: 38
Original Join Date: February 18th 2002
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Post by Delphi on Nov 10, 2016 4:03:59 GMT
I'm still upset about it and I'm still scared. But I'm trying to put that aside. Right now I have to start acting. I don't have much influence but I can do something even if it's small.
There are five Latina girls in my class I'm an aide for an an ESL Saudi Arabian boy. As long as I'm in that classroom, they will be not belittled or ostracized by their peers OR adults. Not while I'm in earshot. Even if it gets me trouble I will do the right thing. They deserve to be able to get an education, a good one, without worrying about physical or mental harm.
It will be okay for me because I have privilege as a white middle class woman. It's not going to be okay for the minorities. If I can use my privilege to insulate even just those six kids from as much hate as possible I will do it. It's all I can do at this moment. But I will not stop there if I can help it.
We're broken from the very foundations at the community level. We can't fix the top level without fixing the rotting foundation first. Those of us that can risk this with little danger to ourselves, we have a lot of work to do for our friends who can't even exist and feel safe. We need to start at our city government level and work our way up.
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Jinn
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Posts: 73
Original Join Date: April 4th, 1984
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Post by Jinn on Nov 10, 2016 11:01:18 GMT
Trying to find silver linings in this whole thing is proving extremely difficult, You don't live in Paris France, right now. A mismanaged influx of Syrian/Afghan/Somali refugees has wrecked countries across Europe - France, Germany and Sweden more so. Hell even a super-inclusive country like Canada is experiencing problems with their share of the above with housing and assimilation at the schooling level - with these migrant kids beating up Canadian students and teachers. In an attempt to not cause additional anti-DNC stir with the US election, the Obama administration hit a temporary pause this Sept after accepting an initial 10,000 wartime refugees. The intent to resume and increase numbers after the election - something Tradeau has already committed to for Canada for 2017 and onward. This is a huge bullet that America has possibly dodged (or at most realistically just delayed) because of how the election swung. I understand certain demographics will be emotionally perturbed by the election result for some time - and for some legitimate reasons too. But objectively speaking, America was in for diarrhea-esque levels of shit as well under a Clinton administration as well. Something to think about now that the election hype is over.
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Egann
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Posts: 124
Original Join Date: Sometime in 2008
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Post by Egann on Nov 10, 2016 14:48:27 GMT
So at this point it's obvious I'm not talking to people ready for rational discussion. I'll stick a pin in some of the important points and bring them back up next week when everyone isn't grieving. Just don't don't stress yourselves into oblivion in the meantime. That said.... Trump could very well take away gay marriage if he appoints justices who will overturn it--something he's stated he wants to do. It's that simple. Not impractical. It only seems silly to you because you're not affected. That's theoretically possible, but it's way harder than you think. Obergefell v. Hodges is now case law and it is far harder to remove a case law than to establish it, in part because it's extraordinarily unlikely any follow-up case which could conceivably overturn it will even get to the supreme court. And let's not forget that the empty seat was Scalia's--one of the dissenting opinions. The actual composition of the supreme court doesn't look to change any time soon. Sometimes things work out this way--but not usually. The most recent example of this I can find is Austin v Michigan State Chamber of Commerce, a campaign finance case from almost 30 years ago the court overturned in Citizens United v Federal Elected Commission in 2010. Not exactly a decision under a lot of public scrutiny. Another example is Wolf v Colorado, an illegal search and seizure case which was revised because officers started waving random papers as if they were warrants. The major cases which were overturned are Dredd Scott v Sandford, which was overturned during reconstruction, and the Plessy v Ferguson segregation case. I'm not saying it doesn't exist because there are a whole lot of supreme court cases and I'm no expert, but a major court case which overturns personal rights in the negative direction? Yeah, not happening. As an aside, this reminds me of the reason I was a Fiorina supporter during the primaries; her platform on abortion was to move the legitimate interests the Supreme Court used in Roe v Wade to claim the rights to regulate abortions in the third trimester back into the second trimester instead. This would effectively ban late term abortions. This is the most healthy perspective on abortion policy I have seen to date, in part because it frames itself in the existing case law and as a compromise which most pro-choice liberals would be able to accept (minus the partial birth abortion cool-aid drinkers.) This is how you alter policy dictated by the Supreme Court, not by padding the court and reversing the decision.
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Post by SteveT on Nov 10, 2016 15:13:09 GMT
"So at this point it's obvious I'm not talking to people ready for rational discussion."
I, for one, am always ready for rational discussion. If you have something to say, lay it on me.
PM if you prefer, and the conversation ends the second one of us types any kind of personal insult or patronizing statement, barring this statement and what I quoted above.
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Selena
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Odinsdottir
Posts: 318
Original Join Date: February 13, 2003
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Post by Selena on Nov 10, 2016 15:30:39 GMT
Needlessly condescending. Thumper rule. There is basis for feeling anxious, even if you can't see it.
A presidency isn't just policy. A president guides the social conscience, for good or ill. A president spends more time influencing people than they do directly pushing policy. The social fallout of his campaign was enough to stir up vitriol and hatred between all of America's various groups. The social fallout has pushed many conservatives -- not politicians, but average citizens -- into the deep (and thus dangerous) right.
So you can analyze what he will or won't do during his 4 years in office, but that's political science. That's the stuff you like to analyze. That's not where the main problems will be in the meantime. The lasting and deepest problems will all be social, where rules don't apply. Only raw emotion. From both sides. Equal in their opposing passions.
On that note, I'm hoping protests around the nation don't get out of control or turn violent. Either from within, or from counter-protesters who have weakened tolerance for demonstrations.
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